What Now? Your Role

First, let me say this is my first diary ever.  I was on another orange site for about 2 years, and never posted a diary there.  Folks with much more to say than I had to say kept everything pretty well covered, until the site became vituperatively anti Hillary, and I had to leave in disgust.  I came here, found a slightly better atmosphere, until some of the folks from there followed those who left here to keep the divide going.  Yes, Hello, my name is emsprater and I am a Hillary supporter.

I live in Florida.  Many of you have bickered back and forth with me about whether the votes of Florida Democrats should count.  I never thought folks in my own party would side against having my vote count.  But I won't dwell on that point, because folks have their minds made up, so lets not rehash it.  I did change my party registration to NPA because of the actions of the DNC.  Before you ream me for that act, remember Obama has the support of many NPA Americans, that is what put him over the top over Hillary.   Belittle my choice to change at the peril of your own candidates support.  So where am I going with this?

Hillary's supporters have some tough choices to make.  I've stated here, publically that I would have as one of my choices leaving the POTUS spot on the ticket blank.  Now granted, I probably won't do that, because as we all know, we do need a Democrat in the White House.  I will forever remain disappointed that the Democrat I thought was best for the office doesn't have that chance.  Many of us will.  

We are at a crossroads.  Again what's the point?

Your role in which road we choose to take.

Last night here on MyDD, we were witness to the verbal stoning of Hillary Clinton.  Nothing short of having her weep and cry and crawl off the stage would satisfy the Obama die hards here.  That was totally uncalled for.  In fact, it actually hardened the resolve of many Hillary supporters to leave that line 'blank' in the GE.  Yes, it's totally stupid for anyone to allow the actions of the supporters of a candidate to sway their decision not to vote for that candidate.  But, really, how many of you have also stated that you would never support Hillary because of some of her supporters?  Over the last year, many of you have.

Again, here today, the bashing continues.  Folks, it's over. I repeat, IT'S OVER.  You won.  Your candidate won.  Now we don't have to agree on just how he won, but he won.  He is the nominee.  So I ask, why the constant resolve by some of you to kick Hillary's supporters, to rub salt in our wounds and to continue to denigrate and smear her and Bill as well?  Do you not realize that you need us?  

Do you not realize that 'hope' includes us?  And 'change' won't come about without us?

Frankly, my hope is that Hillary goes no where near the VP slot, nor anywhere near any of the cabinet offices or special projects for an Obama administration.   I do hope she campaigns for him: I  am not sure that I can bring myself to even sport a bumper sticker (I didn't sport a Hillary one, either).  Hillary deserves more respect than the Obama camp is giving her.  How you folks deal with your dislike for her may well determine the success of your candidate in the fall.  We need to beat McCain, but do NOT take the votes of Hillary's supporters as a 'given'.  Folks who have been called 'racists' (and some of you have stated that about Hillary's supporters) by Obama's supporters are not likely to forgive so easily.



Display:


Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 4)

its an internet site.  I wouldn't take anything too personal that is said on something like this.  I just got done reading taylor marsh and you don't see me screaming at Clinton supporters, and the crap they say there makes me almost physically ill.

Clinton kicked some serious ass and I salute her.  She actually gained a lot of respect from me and I feel like I understand her and like her a lot more than I did in the beginning.  

Give it some time.  Heck, even though my candidate won I am still kind of stunned.  I cannot begin to imagine what a die hard Clinton supporter must be feeling right now.


by Xris on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:29:18 PM EST

Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 2)

re-register as a Democrat. Otherwise you're really just taking it out on yourself (eliminating your voice from the electoral process)


by bobdoleisevil on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:29:21 PM EST

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 3)

um, you do know that in the GE it does not matter what party you declare for in voting?


by zerosumgame on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Florida has a primary on August 26th. (none / 0)


by bobdoleisevil on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 3)

Yes, closed primary, as it should be everywhere.  Why should independents be choosing the nominee of any party?

However, it's a done deal.  The DNC  ticked off many Florida Democrats.  I came here form Virginia in 2004, Democrat for over 20 years in VA.  Partied my ass off for Robb, supported Wilder, cursed at Gilmore and "knock their soft teeth down their whiney throats" Allen.  

I can still vote for DESERVING Democratic candidates here.  The DNC, however, can no longer take me for granted.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (none / 0)

just to be a butt, it would be pretty easy for a person to register as a particular party member then go straight back to being an independent.  


by Xris on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 3)

Yes, but those darn things called 'principle' and 'morals' get in my way every time.  Even us gay folks have some of those traits, ya know?


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (none / 0)

I'm the same way, I would not do it either.  Not quite sure why you were kind of suggesting I thought gay people didn't have principles or morals, but oh well.

For the Horde!!!


by Xris on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 1)

I wasn't suggesting that you suggested that.  I just like to put it out there as much as possible so everyone ELSE can see that yes, gays have those 'good' traits too.  It's not all about sex, ya know?  We have to reinforce that when we can.  


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida has closed primaries. You should (2.00 / 3)

I am in full agreement with your position.  I've supported the party for 48 years.  Not now.  Not ever again will they get my time, effort or money.  I will vote for some Democrats, probably most, but I am now an Independent.  


by Tolstoy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:10:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Tips for ... (2.00 / 4)

stopping the insanity that has consumed us all and also stopping the bleeding before it gets too entrenched.

We can also stop the teevee pundits by focusing on the task at had: the GE.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:30:16 PM EST

Re: Tips for ... (2.00 / 3)

Have some faith.  Can you imagine what is going to happen in November if we come together?  Total ass beating.


by Xris on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 3)

and they TR and HR like maniac's. very insecure folks doing the stoning, not just last night but for months. as I have said before i will vote for BHO but will never be able to accept certain posters as anything but divisive trolls and crypto-McSamiac's trying to keep people pissed off.


by zerosumgame on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:31:48 PM EST

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 2)

i have no car, so i guess I cant sport a bumper sticker either.

I will tell you Im gonna buy one of those new Hillary posters and then one of those Barack (the red and blue one; the awesome one)posters. Then Im gonna have them face each other in my room, framed of course, and underneath I will hang a little title:

"everyone's favorite quarelling couple" or  maybe "everyone's favorite dynamic duo"--something to that effect.


by alyssa chaos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:34:42 PM EST

Re: What Now? Your Role (none / 0)

Don't you need a break from it?


by soyousay on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (none / 0)

nah. they're my heroes.


by alyssa chaos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (none / 0)

I had the same idea when I saw those posted in a diary. I'll put both on the same wall. Already have a Citizen Kane poster up in an opposite corner: that'll stand in for McCain.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 7)

I have a Hillary sticker. It stays on until the car dies. I might then put another Hillary sticker on the next one.


by OrangeFur on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:35:48 PM EST

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 1)

In Virginia I had a "The Road to Hell was Paved by Republicans" bumper sticker on my truck.  I gave it to a friend / coworker when I left (the truck) and I understand he kept it on.

I just never placed any stickers on my new truck, except for my 'Roll Tide' sticker.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think many of here have been down right gracious (2.00 / 2)

We have congratulated her and her supporters.  I think your characterization is inappropriate and unfair.  Obama supporters having been cheering as Obama has praised her for the past couple of weeks.  Why can't you accept "thank you" and "congratulations" as thank you and congratulations?


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:38:59 PM EST

Many were gracious. (2.00 / 4)

Many were not.   I suppose you won't see that if you're not looking for it.

I didn't accuse every Obama supporter.  The folks who are guilty know who they are.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There have been some jerkoffs, but... (2.00 / 1)

you wrote:

"Last night here on MyDD, we were witness to the verbal stoning of Hillary Clinton.  Nothing short of having her weep and cry and crawl off the stage would satisfy the Obama die hards here."

I don't think that is fair at all.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There have been some jerkoffs, but... (2.00 / 2)

If you don't think that's fair, you didn't witness the derogatory things slung at her last evening.

Frankly, I'm being mild in my criticism.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess I haven't seen it (none / 0)

no

feel free to point out this phantom barrage of insults.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:02:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess I haven't seen it (2.00 / 2)

they were contained in the thread covering her speech last night.

I simply WILL NOT gather them and repeat them here for your enjoyment.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:04:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Then you're argument is bogus (none / 0)

you are tying an entire campaign around the words of a few.

That's YOUR problem.

I've been more than respectful.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The five diaries on the Rec List... (2.00 / 1)

We're all very kind and mostly written by Clinton supporters accepting that Barack Obama won the nomination.  They were on the Rec List because of recs from Obama supporters.  And they were all full of very kind comments from Obama supporters.  At the same time there was diary up by Alegre calling for a fight until Denver and insulting Obama.  We had another one of those by TexasDarlin today.  Both were on the Rec List, but you haven't seen anything similar on the Rec list from Obama supporters.  Like I said I think we've been down right gracious.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:07:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The five diaries on the Rec List... (2.00 / 2)

Noe of us are here all day.  I didn't see the diaries of Alegre or TexasDarlin, but unlike you, I am not going to suggest that they don't exist because I didn't see them, or call for you to repeat them here to prove their existence.

I've stated that I am not condemning all Obama supporters, but a portion of them.  If you can't accept that, well, we're done.  Enjoy your evening.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:17:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0)

you're asking us to control our supporters.

Control yours too.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (2.00 / 2)

Your sig line is a slightly ironic in this context.

But it was only a couple of weeks ago that the blogosphere was on fire because Hillary Clinton was threatening to murder Barack Obama.

A lot of ugly stuff happened the last few months. It'll take time and effort to get over it. Maybe it will happen by November. Maybe not. But we can all certainly try to help in the effort.


by OrangeFur on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

it is what it is (2.00 / 3)

IMO, most forums start out nice and end up in sh*t. Take the orange site for example; when I first came across the site, it was pretty harmonious, when I left, The webmasters were slinging the mud too. I see this site heading down the same path..That's just human nature, IMO.


by soyousay on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:41:24 PM EST

It has been quite the journey, emsprater. (2.00 / 5)

We've traded mojo going back to Kos and now here, supporting Hillary all the way. It is tough to see her kicked in the ass on the way out the door, but I made a conscience decision to ignore those who behave that way. It helps my sense of serenity to remind myself that it comes from faceless, nameless entities on an anonymous blog, and there are many many more who are better than that - much better than that. Our party is healing as we speak and I would hate to see you not a part of this journey, this emotional roller coaster that will have a really good ending. Please don't let the actions of a few rabble rousers determine your actions. We need you in the fight against McCain, and we need your vote in November. Peace...


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:57 PM EST

Re: It has been quite the journey, emsprater. (2.00 / 3)

Yes, I think one of the things that struck both of us as just insane was the continual revisionist history being spun on the tubes about Hillary and how she and Bill 'harmed' gays.  Complete poppycock.  Folks like yourself, directly impacted, spoke out with the truth, others, like myself, who were there for the ride at the time and saw and actually experienced what happened just couldn't seem to get the folks who were  not there at the time to understand the dynamics of the time and politics of the time.

That's one sad chapter in the bashing of Hillary  to me, personally.  The GOP defeated Robb because of his support for Gays.  Now, here we are, with the Democrats actually using the same scheme to help defeat a fellow Democrat.  Shocking!

Rabble rousers didn't stop me from going to my first gay bar in the early 70's when they slashed all 4 of my tires outside the Go Go club in Chattanooga.  They won't stop me now.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 1)


Nothing is so admirable in politics as a short memory.

John Kenneth Galbraith


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:56:02 PM EST

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 2)

I'm sure that Hillary will have that in mind every time she speaks she will hear Obama saying "she'll say anything to win".

There's lots to get past.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 1)

Galbraith wasn't kidding.  Short memories make for strong coalitions.  For all the apparent ill-will the primary was a foam-bat fight compared to the clobbering we are going to deliver to the Republicans in November.  Join us, it's going to be to good to miss.  Who could resist?


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 2)

Honestly, after all the slime that flowed in the primary, the thought of hurling more of it isn't that appealing.


by OrangeFur on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:27:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (none / 0)

Well, then let's go forth and whup 'em on the issues.  Lord knows they are just begging for it.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:32:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank You! (2.00 / 4)

for writing this diary.  Clearly, there are many Obama supporters who really feel they don't need Clinton, or her supporters in order to win the White House.  So I say to them---Fine, please feel free to  
carry Obama on your own, and without our help.
by izarradar on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:00:27 AM EST

Re: Thank You! (2.00 / 3)

Clearly, there are many Obama supporters who really feel they don't need Clinton, or her supporters in order to win the White House.

I simply don't agree with this. Of course we need Hillary supporters to win in November. Of course we need to come together as a party to defeat McCain.

If the level of frustration here the past few days has reached a boiling point, it's due in large part to the fact that a small but vocal minority of HRC supporters are staunchly opposed to coming together. They're unwilling to acknowledge that Obama has legitimately earned the right to call himself the presumptive nominee, and they are suggesting they will turn their backs on the party and vote for McCain rather than support the Democratic candidate.

This small but visible group is digging in for a protracted fight, and the majority of the negative comments I've seen (including some I've written myself) are directed squarely at these folks. We may need them, we may want them, but they do not want us.

That said, the majority of the HRC supporters here are people I respect and admire, even we if we don't agree on all things, and I'm sure I speak for most BO supporters when I say we definitely want and need their support.

I'd rec this diary if I could. Kudos.


by jdusek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 1)

Hillary spelled it out last night in her speech--R-E-S-P-E-C-T!  No respect, no vote!  

Comprende?


by trixta on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:00:58 AM EST

Like it matters (2.00 / 1)

no matter how much respect anyone shows you, you'll be sure to point out the words of some moron to tie around Obama's neck.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:04:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Like it matters (2.00 / 1)

Look, during the primary battle here, Obama supporters were always eager to point out that it was the obligation of Hillary's supporters to police their own.

If you see some 'moron' doing something stupid, please tell them for the sake of your own candidate's message of unity.

Respect for Hillary has been earned.  The vote totals show that, whether you like it or not.  To ignore how close this was, and claim  some large 'victory' or 'mandate' for Obama is to parrot GWB after 2000.  It wasn't the case then, and it isn't the case now.  A near evenly divided party cannot succeed. Remember the ideology of 'political capital'?  It is 'spent' quickly if not well.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:12:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have for the entire season (none / 0)

I can't control what millions of people think and say and if you're really going to decide who to vote for based on a few people on blogs, then I'm not really sure what you're looking for in a President.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:15:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have for the entire season (none / 0)

I think there is a sentence in my diary that completely negates your "if you're really going to decide who to vote for based on a few people on blogs," comment.  Look for it, you'll find it.

You and I may well pull the lever for the same candidate in the fall, but I seriously doubt we would ever share a laugh or a beer or motorcycle ride.

Night.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:21:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Outstanding diary. From your heart! (2.00 / 4)

I can relate to what you're going through.

It'll sort itself out, I'm sure.

You'll do what's right for you.

I'm gonna' go and rec this now!


by bobswern on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:04:01 AM EST

I've already decided to leave the GE pres blank (none / 0)

The obama supporters have totally disgusted me, they're abominable, and obama has nothing to be proud of either. I'll vote for all the down ticket dems but not him.


by bobbyk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:37:10 AM EST

Re: I've already decided to leave the GE pres blan (2.00 / 2)

Look, I don't cast all of Obama's supporters as the ones guilty of demonizing Hillary.  I do hold some of his campaign tactics accountable for the denigration of Bill's record, and that was one of the reasons that Obama had to come out in his speech last evening and actually finally acknowledge some of Bill's accomplishments.  

Obama has a lot to be proud of, but he also has a lot of 'fence mending' to accomplish, and I am not sure how he is going to do that without Hillary's help.  His campaign and supporters and talking heads all called any state that voted for Hillary either racist, or dumb, uneducated rednecks.  Yep, those are the biggest problems he has to overcome; how to get around the insults hurled at those he needs as voters in the fall.  That's why I've written this diary.  And that's why it hasn't fallen on deaf ears (for the most part) here on MyDD.

I've spoken out loudly against the 'blackmail' tactics of those who say 'vote for my guy or the soldiers die' or 'vote for my guy or the right to choose goes away'.   I will never use those tactics, it's insulting and frankly, not productive nor helpful.

But, in the end, we need a Democrat in the White House, because no good third party candidate exists that has any chance to defeat McCain.  We may not feel that the best Democrat is on the ballot, but we do have a Democrat that can be held accountable there.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:53:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've already decided to leave the GE pres blan (2.00 / 2)

Nice reply, honestly when I saw that someone replied to me earlier post I thought I was going to see something nasty. In the end given enough time I think I'll be able to come around and pull the lever for Senator Obama, it's to early yet and I'm still really pissed. Plus I honestly believe Senator Clinton is the better candidate(and so do 50% of the dems who voted in this primary-a fact being studiously ignored by the media and Obama supporters).:-)


by bobbyk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 10:41:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 2)

Excellent Dairy. This is my firs trip back to MYDD in over a month. The Obama bots have really taken to insulting Hillary and the half to the DNC that support her. They even want to get rid of the rest of the primaries. So much for Democracy in the Democratic party.

That said, I hope Hillary has a role at the convention ahead. She received more votes than Obama.


Elvis has left the building.
by True Blue Dem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:15:02 AM EST

Re: What Now? Your Role (2.00 / 1)

oh so I just decided that when I do buy me my car, (which will be most likely when I graduate seeing as Im a poor collegiate) I will anoint it with a Hillary Clinton bumper sticker. I have lots which is dumb cause I dont have a car and my parents get pissy when I ask them to put it on theirs.


by alyssa chaos on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:58:36 AM EST


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